CW-Com issues, and maybe a cure?

[Ham4CW]

Folks.

Well, as some of you are aware I have had nothing but TX issues with CW-Com since I started using it again a few weeks ago.

I've tried four laptops, four different operating systems, using WiFi and LAN connections across two totally different networks, and so on.

I've tried using a USB to serial adapter, I've tried a converted mouse adapter, both twin paddle and straight keys. And in all of the above combinations I seem to get issues on transmit ranging from the occasional clipped or missing dit or dah, to full on lock-up of CW-Com keying.

The only thing I found that seemed to work most of the time was (apart from typing!), the down arrow button on the keyboard. Although this works, it is not the easiest of things to send for any length of time with.

If only you could hook a Morse Key up to it I thought. Then it hit me! If you can use an adapted mouse, why not adapt a keyboard! So, before I trashed a perfectly good keyboard I tested one as is, plugged in to one of the laptops that I know gives issues big time. It worked!

I set up two machines, both linked via the ionosphere server, and tried sending between the two machines for nearly two hours. On one machine I used the built in down arrow, on the other machine I used the down arrow on an external keyboard plugged in to it. As I say, it worked.

So, I stripped the keyboard down, worked out which lines of the internal keyboard matrix were being connected when the down arrow button was pressed, and solder two wires from those contact points on the keyboard controller to a 3.5mm socket. The keyboard controller now lives in a slim plastic box, with USB lead from one end and the 3.5mm socket on the other to plug in a key.

After this mod I again sent for a number of hours between the machines via the web (so as to make sure the RX side of the program was active), and again all seems stable!

I don't want to say this is a 100% cure at the moment, I want to see how it works when used in anger from the car via the WiFi at work. If it can do that consistently then we have a winner!

Also, I purchased some Arduino variants with the intention of programming them up as HIDs, emulating a mouse, because at the time this seemed to be the 'in thing' for connecting external keys. But after this little experiment I will reconsider programming then up to emulate keyboards instead. Specifically the keyboard down arrow.

Anyhow, I'll see how the adapted controller version works first, and if it's successful I'll then try an Arduino variant.

The thing is, they are so tiny you could put one in to the base of almost any hollow key and you would not know it was there. The only clue would be a USB plug on the key cable!

And if it works better than the mouse conversions then it really is win win! :*:

To be continued...

73, Mark... 

 

[MI0PYN]

Well, that is a super solution, it certainly sounds like it's working better than anything else you've tried so far.

This would only work for a straight key though, right?

Although, thinking about it, it would be possible to code the Arduino to do both straight or paddle and simply send arrow key down/up as a HID.

Nice hack though Mark, I look forward to hearing the results of the field testing!

 

[foggycoder]

If that works for you then great - I'd love to see you on CWCOM more.

One thing I've noticed when I've seen you on CWCOM before (on the Ionosphere webpage), is that you often seem to have lots of instances of CWCOM open. I wonder if that contributes to your difficulties. No-one else has more than one instance open. I believe it has something to do with how you disconnect from CWCOM. I think you have to use the "Disconnect" button rather than just closing the window. Not sure - Gerry will know.

 

[Ham4CW]

Boy did it fail!

Had it running for about four or five sessions of cw-com without a single glitch, then it started to miss the odd part of a character here and there. It rapidly got worse to the point where I had to revert to typing yet again.

Something/s I noticed was that when cw-com was off line it did not glitch. Going online to the ionosphere server gave only very rarely a glitch, but when others arrived on one of the 'channels' on there it started to go nuts big time.

I've also found that the keyboard version of the adapter seems more reliable than the mouse version. But at times when the keyboard version is giving problems, if I swap over to the mouse version the issues are really bad.

While performing even more searching for answers around the web I came across references to others having similar problems when using anything via USB. Even the USB serial adapters as opposed to 'real' serial ports on a PC's mother board. The info that kept coming up was that the errors are most likely caused by polling rates on the USB lines, and that if things go really awry it can effect other buses with the machine causing data collisions and an overall slowing down of the PC.

In theory you can change the polling rate but it's a job not intended for the feint of heart, especially on Linux where you have to change a number of lines in the source code for the kernel and re-compile the whole thing!

Windows is slightly easier, but you can still cause a serious problem if you mess with the settings too much (from what I can gather).

Overall it would appear that it is a combination of operating system, PC hardware, hardware drivers, peripheral built in polling settings, and bus activity that all combine to effect the overall outcome!

Info suggest that reliability can range from 100% if you land lucky and everything falls in to place, through very occasional glitches, to the worst cases where the system becomes pretty much unusable! And to add to that all of this can vary from moment to moment in time!

The last time I used CW-Com about 11yrs ago or more now, it was with a desktop PC, running Windows XP 32bit, and the PC had built in serial ports. So the host machine was exactly what CW-Com was intended to be used with.

In the last few days I spoke to one of the op's on CW-Com who uses a modern Desktop PC only a few weeks old, running Windows 10, and he has no problems whatsoever with it. I believe he uses both paddle keys and straight keys.

I think he should be doing the lottery with that kind of good luck!  )

This did raise some questions in my mind, one of the main ones being that is there any brand of mouse that works best, or even just works? Two of the main operators on CW-Com that I hear I 'think' both use converted mice from the same source, so it would be interesting to see what brand these mice are, and are they exactly the same, or is it just a fluke that they both function OK even though possibly being of various construction and sources?

More questions... :-*

 

[foggycoder]

Info suggest that reliability can range from 100% if you land lucky and everything falls in to place, through very occasional glitches, to the worst cases where the system becomes pretty much unusable! And to add to that all of this can vary from moment to moment in time!

In the last few days I spoke to one of the op's on CW-Com who uses a modern Desktop PC only a few weeks old, running Windows 10, and he has no problems whatsoever with it. I believe he uses both paddle keys and straight keys.

I think he should be doing the lottery with that kind of good luck!  )

I don't think that chap you spoke with was particularly lucky - I think that you've been particularly unlucky. I've been using CWCOM for 8 months now. In that time I've had 193 QSOs (proper chats, not just exchange of the basics) with 36 different operators. The shortest QSO was 12 minutes and the longest was 1 hour and 18 minutes. And in all that time I've never heard anyone mention any difficulties with CWCOM.

I personally am aware of the glitches you mention but only on few occasions have they been an issue, and disconnecting and reconnecting a minute later has cured them (I presume they're something to do with the route the signal takes over the internet and reconnecting creates a new glitch-free route). Only once have I had a major problem and, on the advice of the Administrator (Gerry), I un-installed and re-installed CWCOM which put it right.

I'm sorry that you've encountered these difficulties. It would be wrong for me to try to explain them away (I can't anyway, and they might be useful for helping others). But I'm concerned that your extended comments could be creating the wrong impression of CWCOM. My experience and that of everyone else I've shared CWCOM with is that CWCOM is an easy to install and reliable vehicle for morse over the internet.

I use a DB9/serial-to-USB cable to connect my paddle to a very basic PC running Windows 10. I have used a cheap no-name mouse to connect a straight key directly to my PC. Both work fine without any hitches. The only software used is CWCOM.

 

[Ham4CW]

But you shouldn't have to keep disconnecting when things play up, or keep having to uninstall and then reinstall the program. That would be like having an HF set where every time it played up you had to keep turning it off and on again, or keep reflashing the firmware.

If it was just one machine and one operating system then I could put that down to some quirk in that machine. If it was one interface that played up I could put that down to that particular interface having some issue for whatever reason.

But don't forget I have been trying the program out on four different machines, running four different operating systems (one of which was Windows XP, from the same era as CW-Com), then mixed in with these have been two professional grade USB to serial converters, one converted USB mouse, and one converted USB keyboard.

Across all of these issues have ranged from latency issues of the side tone when sending, clipped audio and clicking on the reconstructed received audio, the send control signal latching (creating a continuous stream of dits or dahs, or even just a continuous tone), and the overall number one issue, defective and or missing characters during sending.

The initial ones mentioned I could live with, and some only occur with certain mixes of interface/operating system/machine. But the break up or erratic nature of the keyed signal has been a constant across ALL of the machines, ALL of the operating systems, and now appear to be pretty well independant of any interface device used.

You even say yourself that...

I personally am aware of the glitches you mention but only on few occasions have they been an issue, and disconnecting and reconnecting a minute later has cured them (I presume they're something to do with the route the signal takes over the internet and reconnecting creates a new glitch-free route). Only once have I had a major problem and, on the advice of the Administrator (Gerry), I un-installed and re-installed CWCOM which put it right.

But all of this agrees with what I said in the section you quoted...

Info suggest that reliability can range from 100% if you land lucky and everything falls in to place, through very occasional glitches, to the worst cases where the system becomes pretty much unusable! And to add to that all of this can vary from moment to moment in time!

To paraphrase a quote, it seems to work for some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time!

As a parting note in defense of the program, the one thing that did seem to work was using the down arrow button on the keyboard as an input for straight keying. When all else messed up the down arrow kept on going... bd

 

[foggycoder]

I hear what you say and I quite understand it - I would feel the same way that you do if I had had the same experience of it. But if everybody had the same experience as you, there'd be no-one on CWCOM, whereas there are actually quite a lot of happy operators on there.

I think we're just going to have to agree to have a differing opinion of CWCOM.